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Percocet vs. Endocet
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82 replies November 27, 2005 - 3:24pm JeckPDX Member Joined: Oct 5
2005 Posts: 226 User offline. Last seen 1 year 4 weeks ago.

I am somewhat curious about Percocet brand name oxycodone/APAP and
Endocet generic percocet. Are they made by the same manufacturer? I
have been rx'd 5/325, 7.5/500 and 10/650 strength Percocet tablets.
When filled at my pharmacy, they were dispensed as Endocet in the same
strengths. When I filled my last Rx, they were out of generic and i
was dispensed brand name Percocet. On the label, i had the same
manfacturer listed as Endo Pharm. Also, the Percocet pills, with the
exception of the 5/325 were the same shape color, and size, had the
same score marks or beveled edges and the same 7.5 or 10 imprinted in
the same manner as the generic endocet pills. The only difference is
insteadof Percocet they say E796 or E797 and the 5/325mg strength is
the same size and has the same score and bevel marks as the brand
5/325 only it is white instead of blue and has Endo 602 imprinted
instead of Percocet 5.

Are these generics the exact same thing as the brand name, and if so,
why is the brand so much more expensive if it produced by the same
manufacturer in the same manner?

Thanks

JeckPDX

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December 2, 2005 - 10:13am #1 acexnx316@www.p... Member Joined: Nov 13
2005 Posts: 14 User offline. Last seen 4 years 24 weeks ago. Hi
there,Believe it or not,

Hi there,

Believe it or not, Endocet pills are made by the exact manufacturer as
Percocet, Endo Pharmaceuticals. So therefore, Endocet is technically a
brand name. The only reason the company manufacturers two different
brand named Oxycodone/Acetaminophen pills is because they vary
slightly both by Oxycodone/Acetaminophen dosage and color.

Percocet Oxycodone/Acetaminophen combonations:

2.5/325mg (Pink colored, oval) - Imprinted with PERCOCET - 2.5

5.0/325mg (Blue colored, round) - Imprinted with PERCOCET - 5

7.5/325mg (Peach colored, oval) - Imprinted with PERCOCET - 7.5/325

7.5/500mg (Peach colored, oblong) Imprinted with PERCOCET - 7.5

10.0/325mg (Yellow colored, oblong) - Imprinted with PERCOCET - 10/325

10.0/650mg (Yellow colored, oval) - Imprinted with PERCOCET - 10

Now compare those with the Endocet Oxycodone/Acetaminophen
combonations:

5.0/325mg (White colored, round) - Imprinted with Endo602

7.5/325mg (Peach colored, oblong) - Imprinted with E700 - 7.5/325

7.5/500mg (Peach colored, oblong) - Imprinted with E796 - 7.5

10.0/325mg (Yellow colored, oval) - Imprinted with E712 - 10/325

10.0/650mg (Yellow colored, oval) - Imprinted with E797 - 10

As far as potency, at least with Hydrocodone/Acetaminophen pills), I
have seen about 98% of people preferring the Watson Generic brand of
the 10/325mg (Instead of brand named Norco) and 10/500mg (Instead of
brand named Lortab). The people that prefer these generics seem to
think that they are stronger, and perhaps they are; but by law, all
generics must contain the exact same active ingredients as their brand
name equivalents, it's just the binders and fillers that can be messed
around with a bit. So as far as Percocet and Endocet being the same
potency, by law and chemical equivalency, yes they are, but how your
body reacts to one pill may be different than how it does for another.
HTH!

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December 12, 2005 - 1:26am #2 valwinner Member Joined: Dec 12 2005
Posts: 1 User offline. Last seen 4 years 20 weeks ago. Percocet vs
Endocet

I have been taking oxycodone for more than 2 years. Last week my
pharmacy was out of oxycodone and filled my perscription with Endocet.
From the very start I did not feel like I was getting the same pain
relief. I ended up sleeping at least 6 extra hours each day. By the
end of the week I was in severe pain and then proceeded to get flu
like symptoms. Today is the first day I have felt a bit better. I
spoke to my physician last week in the midst of the turmoil and he
told me to tell the pharmacist they had to fill my perscription with
oxycodone and not endocet. In my particular case, Endocet is
definitely not the same strength as oxycodone.

I wanted to write this because I am sure this has to have happened to
others in the past. Let me know and Good Luck to all.

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December 12, 2005 - 1:40am #3 incognito Member Joined: May 16 2005
Posts: 1223 User offline. Last seen 42 weeks 4 days ago. Endocet IS
Oxycodone!!!

Endocet IS Oxycodone!!!

Endocet is a brand name, with Oxycodone being the active pain killing
opiate. Endocet is available in many of the same strengths as percocet
but with less APAP (tylenol).

The only real difference is the manufacturer.

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March 28, 2006 - 8:37pm #4 StreetDoc Member Joined: Mar 28 2006 Posts:
1 User offline. Last seen 4 years 4 weeks ago. Endocet vs. Oxycodone

I've recently kicked a long long bad habit with pain medication
because of an injury. I do not have an official degree in
pharmacutecals nor am I a doctor, but I do have great interest in
pharmacutecals and much experience.

Oxycodone is generic for endocet, percocet, and oxycontin.

The reason you may feel different is because it is all in your head,
and you may be developing a tolerance. But there is no difference in
the two.

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March 29, 2006 - 7:47pm #5 RJ Member Joined: Mar 24 2006 Posts: 7
User offline. Last seen 4 years 4 weeks ago. w/d

the symptoms you described as being flu like sounds like w/d symptoms
to me. In no expert but from what I understand that appears to be the
case. Hope you resolved your issue.

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April 29, 2006 - 12:30am #6 butrfligirl29 Member Joined: Apr 29 2006
Posts: 1 User offline. Last seen 4 years 3 days ago. Endocet vs.
Percocet

Sorry, but you are wrong. There are differences with generic brands. I
also take Percocet for chronic pain. When my pharmacy switched to
Endocet instead of the Watson brand I was used to taking, it not only
did not work as well, but I also had an increase in side effects. I
had to talk with my doctor AND pharmacist to figure out the problem.
(had no thoughts at the time that it had ANYTHING to do with the med
change). Turns out my pharmacist and doc had both heard of some people
getting better relief with one generic brand versus another. I belong
to a group for chronic pain and many members have experienced this as
well.

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April 29, 2006 - 3:34am #7 incognito Member Joined: May 16 2005 Posts:
1223 User offline. Last seen 42 weeks 4 days ago. Variance

I found this article awhile back that might help shed some light on
this topic.

It discusses the "20% variance" allowed in the bioequivalence of
generic drugs, that many consumers are unaware of.

Brand vs Generic

The first part of the article pertains to the regulatory aspects of
the generic approval process and explains allowable differences. With
the second half titled: "Examples from the world of consumer
experience" dealing with individual cases, much like those expressed
in this thread and others.

It is an interesting article and worth the read.

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April 29, 2006 - 3:52am #8 ktx49 Member Joined: Jan 29 2006 Posts: 6
User offline. Last seen 3 years 22 weeks ago. WRONG....

ok im not going to get into the other debate about certain generics
beind better than others as IMO, its totally placebo/users body
chemistry or something along those lines...generics follow VERY strict
regulations and there is no way one generic could be significantly
different/stronger/whatever than another generic or even the name
brand...atleast when its taken as prescribed. im not saying its total
BS or that you guys are liars, im just saying its not the actual
pill/company or anything, its YOUR body/opinion/mind so dont assume
you're right or that generics x#& or something.

ANYWAYS, about the endocet vs. percocet thing:

BOTH forms of this oxycodone/apap combination drug are made by ENDO
Pharms....there is NO difference except for the fact that the imprints
differ and some of the strengths and oxy/apap ratios are different.
However, this is NOT the reason why the same manufacturer produces
both a name brand and a generic version. They also make a generic
version in an attempt to help bring back revenue that is lost once the
patent runs out on the original name brand drug and many other rival
companies begin to produce generics. Instead of losing basically ALL
their sales due to most people getting generics over a name brand once
one is available, the pharm company(ENDO in this case w/percocet) will
also put out a generic version of their own product in order to
compete with the other generic manufactures...sometimes the first
generic to come out is made by the name brand company which is what
happened with ENDO; Percocet and then came ENDOCET.

pretty smart eh?

BTW, this is STRICTLY my opinion, but i have found NO real difference
between the brand name percocet 10/325, the ENDOCET 10/325, or the
watson 10/325....in fact, if anything i like the generics
better....they're cheaper 

-ktx49 Top

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April 29, 2006 - 4:03am #9 ktx49 Member Joined: Jan 29 2006 Posts: 6
User offline. Last seen 3 years 22 weeks ago. OH, i didnt see the post

OH, i didnt see the post directly above mine that i just posted.

that site is wrong, i am sorry.

call up the FDA and ask about generic regulations. you ARE WRONG about
the 20% thing, but im not trying to prove you wrong or anything i just
dont want you to mislead people into thinking that kinda stuff is
true....maybe in other countries, but not in the USA. i think all
drugs(generics included) follow the same strict and stringent
guidlines....they even have to absorb similiarly, last the same amount
of time, reach the same peak plasma levels, etc, etc, etc....i could
go on and on, but i'd rather the people who disagree do some research
and find out the truth on their own.

AGAIN, i am NOT saying one brand of medicine cant work better than
another FOR YOU as an INDIVIDUAL, but its strictly your body
chemistry, mind, etc.....because belive it or not, against everything
i just said above lol, i find the Mallinckrodt brand of
hydrocodone/apap products to be inferior in MANY aspects to nearly
every other brand i have tried. there is no reason or rhyme behind
this, it is just my personal preference and past experiences that give
me this opnion.

but please understand that the guy above me is incorrect about how
different generics can be.....any difference is either incorrect
storage/transport of the medication OR your individual
body/preferences.

hope this helps

-ktx49

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April 29, 2006 - 9:20am #10 incognito Member Joined: May 16 2005
Posts: 1223 User offline. Last seen 42 weeks 4 days ago.
Bioequivalence

This is taken from Wikipedia

"Bioequivalence is a term in pharmacokinetics used to assess the
expected in vivo
biological equivalence of two proprietary preparations of a drug. If
two products are said to be bioequivalent it means that they would be
expected to be, for all intents and purposes, the same."

The "Regulatory Definition" for the United States is listed as:

"The FDA considers two products bioequivalent if the 90% CI of the
relative mean Cmax, AUC(0-t) and AUC(0-∞) of the test (e.g. generic
formulation) to reference (e.g. innovator brand formulation) should be
within 80.00% to 125.00% in the fasting state. Although there are a
few exceptions, generally a bioequivalent comparison of Test to
Reference formulations also requires administration after an
appropriate meal at a specified time before taking the drug, a
so-called "fed" or "food-effect" study. A food-effect study requires
the same statistical evaluation as the fasting study, described
above."

The 20% thing doesn't seem so far off now. I guess I won't have to
call the FDA.

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May 9, 2006 - 10:45pm #11 JeckPDX Member Joined: Oct 5 2005 Posts: 226
User offline. Last seen 1 year 4 weeks ago. requip

Being the original poster of the thread being discussed above, I feel
it is time for me to comment on the many reaponses this post has
generated. First off, Persoset and Endoset are the EXACT smae thing.
As noted above, with the expeption of imprint changes, the pills are
identical to one aonther with the Percocet name being replaced on the
tablet by E 7...

As far as generics being better of worse, I also find Mallkinkrodt
hydrocodone and oxycodone gereic equivalents to be inferior however it
is probably just my body. I also find Endocet superior to other
oxycodone generic available. Could this be because is is manufactured
by the same company that manufactured the original Percocet? REmains
to be seen. I apprecate all the well thought out responses except fo
whoever claims that endocet was inferior to percocet and they had w/d
syptoms because of it. I find this hard to beleive as they are both
the same drug made by the same company, maybe it was something
different you experienced?

PDX

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May 10, 2006 - 11:52am #12 alkisses alkisses's picture Joined: Mar 28
2006 Posts: 95 User offline. Last seen 1 year 11 weeks ago. makes for
good reading!i

makes for good reading!

i always wondered where endocet came from. its percocet though, i got
it at the pharmacy the other day and they told me its percocet.

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May 11, 2006 - 2:32am #13 trapper444 Member Joined: May 11 2006 Posts:
1 User offline. Last seen 47 weeks 20 hours ago. Perocet Vs Endocet

hi folks ive been taking the yellow endos now for 2 months & i like
them better than the others my rx is for Perocet 10/325 but my ins
reqiures me to use a gen. instead of the brand except ordered by my
dr. so for 7 months i took the white ones by watson & then my druggest
filld my rx with the endocet they are very effective .seems like i
dont get the cottonmouth as bad with the Endocet as with the watsons

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May 13, 2006 - 4:54pm #14 JeckPDX Member Joined: Oct 5 2005 Posts: 226
User offline. Last seen 1 year 4 weeks ago. watson 10/325 percocets

I also find the watson brand oyxcodone 10/325 genrics to have more
side efects than the endocet as well. I find an increase in nausea and
also increased itching. Not sure why, but I too prefer the Endo's

PDX

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September 16, 2006 - 11:23pm #15 ashley828 Member Joined: Sep 16 2006
Posts: 1 User offline. Last seen 3 years 31 weeks ago. percocet,
endocet, and oxycodone are the same

hey im a pharmacy tech and oxycodone is the active drug in percocet
and oxycontin . endocet is just a generic version of percocet. they
have the EXACT SAME active ingredient! generic manufacters, by law,
cannot change the drug make-up, potency, or consitency. the only
reason generics are cheaper is b/c after a certain amount of time
(depending on length of patent) a drug company's patent expires and
gives other drug companies free reign to reproduce the drug. the only
diffrence is the chemical structure is the fillers (tylenol,
ibuprofen, coatings, etc). so if u feel that the drug isn;t assisting
in pain as well as teh brand, its ALL IN YOUR HEAD. i see cases like
this every day; as soon as a patient sees the word GENERIC they get
create a stigma and automatically assume that its off a lesser quality
and therefore makes them PSYCHOLGICALLY feel like their pain isnt
being sufficinetly treated. this is comparible to the placebo effect:
drs give pts a drug and say its an ssri for their depression, in
reality its just a sugar pill. they give it to the pts for a 2 month
span; whne pts are interviewed 85% claim to be feeling better. just
b/c they are told its an antidepressant, their brain thinks "hey i
just took an ssri, im gonna feel better in a few weeks."

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September 17, 2006 - 10:05am #16 Danielle2343 Member
Danielle2343's picture Joined: May 21 2006 Posts: 277
User offline. Last seen 51 weeks 13 min ago. whoa

That may be true for alot of depressed people , but try telling that
to someone that has chronic pain.

Danielle Nelson

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September 17, 2006 - 1:37pm #17 phisher Member phisher's picture
Joined: Mar 20 2006 Posts: 2178
User offline. Last seen 10 weeks 11 hours ago. i agree.there has been

i agree.

there has been plenty of double blinds performed w/ placebos on
subjects that suffered worse conditions that contradict that.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

all thoughts and opinions expressed are those of my own and should not
be mistaken for medical advice. i am not a doctor nor a pharmacist.
all medical questions should be answered by a licensed pharmacist,
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September 18, 2006 - 12:46am #18 blueangel Member Joined: Aug 17 2006
Posts: 127 User offline. Last seen 1 year 9 weeks ago. ALL IN YOUR
HEAD?

1ST OFF USING AN EXAMPLE OF SSRI vs. A SUGAR PILL-LET ME JUST SAY THIS
MY NEUROPYCHIATRIST, HAS ME ON PROZAC.FOR TEN YEARS-WHEN THE GENERICS
CAME OUT & THEY HAD THE CHANCE FOR PATIENT FEEDBACK, MY TRUSTED DOCTOR
HAS RECIEVED MANY COMPLAINTS IN REFERANCE TO ALL THE GENERICS OF
PROZAC WITH THE EXCEPTION OF DISTA (WHICH IS A SISTER CO. OF LILLY,
THE ORIGINAL MAKERS). I TOLD HIM A LONG TIME AGO I FELT I WAS SPINNING
MY TIRES AS WELL AS NOT BEING ABLE TO KEEP DEPRESSION BOUTS AT BAY. HE
ASKED ME IF I WAS GETTING THE GENERIC- YES I WAS, SO HE IMMEDIATELY
CHANGE ME OVER TO THE NAME BRAND. I HAVE HEARD SOME EXTREMELY
UNFORTUNATE CIRCUMSTANCES OF PEOPLE I KNOW THAT STILL HAVE SEVERE
DEPRESSION & CAN'T SEEM TO GET A HOLD ON IT.THEIR INS. IS NOT
CONDUSIVE TO NAME BRANDS AND THEY CAN'T AFFORD THE $$$$$.THESE ARE
WELL ADJUSTED PEOPLE WHO WORK HARD AT BEATING THE DEPRESSION.A CASE I
HEARD OF WHICH IS TERRIBLY HORRIFIC, IS OF A MAN WHO WAS SUNK IN
DEPRESSION (TAKING THE GENERIC PROZAC)JUST FELL PREY TO THIS MONSTER,
THE ILLNESS TOOK HIS LIFE FOR HE GOT SO BAD, HE HUNG HIMSELF. THIS WAS
A FRIEND OF MINE- who found his lost friend) HIS ROOMATE & BEST FRIEND
FOR OVER 30 YEARS.-AS FOR PAIN GENERICS THERE ARE DIFFERANCES MY DEAR
PHARMACIST, YOU ARE NOT IN ANY POSITION IN ALL HONESTY TO PASS IT ON
AS TO BEING IN ONE'S HEAD -YEAH I KNOW YOU SEE THIS EVERYDAY. DO YOU
PHYSICALLY EXPERIANCE DEBILATING PAIN? HAVE A CHRONIC IRREVERSABLE
ILLNESS, THAT CAN NOT BE SURGICALLY CORRECTED?I DO. EVERY PERSON IS
JUST THAT A PERSON ,UNIQUE, AS THEIR OWN FINGERPRINTS.BODY AND BRAIN
CHEMISTRY ARE HUGE FACTORS. A PERSON WHO KNOWS REAL PAIN AS I AM SURE
MANY OF US ON THIS SITE,KNOWS THE TIMING, REACTION, AND PROBLEMS
DIFFERENT PAIN MEDS OVER LONG TERM USE CAN CREATE-TOLERANCE LEVELS,
MANY THINGS.I AM TAKING MALLINKRODT 10/325'S I KNOW IT IS NOT THAT
GOOD OF A GENERIC, I HAVE TRIED WATSON-NORCO THAT GAVE ME DRY HEAVES &
I GUESS THAT WAS ALL IN MY HEAD AS WELL. I KNOW I NEED TO DISCUSS THIS
WITH MY DR.A PHYSIATRIST, HARVARD & JOHN HOPKINS & CLEVELAND CLINIC-
AND A FOUNDER OF CHICAGO INSTITUTE OF NEUROSURGERY & NEUROSCIENCE.AND
AN AUTHOR OF SOME EXCELLENT BOOKS.FACING PAIN /FINDING HOPE.I AM
BLESSED HE IS CARING FOR ME.THERE ARE DIFFERANCES IN GENERICS /NAME
BRANDS.IT IS NOT IN MY HEAD-NOR DO I THINK OTHER PEOPLE THAT ARE
INVOLVED IN THIS WONDERFUL, INFORMATIVE SITE. I HAVE LEARNED MUCH AND
APPRECIATE ALL COMMENTS EVEN YOURS.WE ALL HAVE OUR OPINIONS -I CAN
ONLY SHARE MY EXPERIANCE, STRENGTH AND HOPE. THANKSSmile

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September 18, 2006 - 11:52am #19 gtrplayer Moderator
gtrplayer's picture Joined: Aug 22 2006 Posts: 2698
User offline. Last seen 58 min 48 sec ago. I know I'm beating a dead
horse, but

I agree with you. I have had scripts from both Tyco-Mallinckrodt, and
Watson. In my opinioin, the Mallinckrodts were terrible, and far less
effective. I know that we are not the only people who have noticed
this, there is a thread about generic percocet somewhere in this site,
and there have been surprisingly few responses. I guess this thread is
a cover all for that question. I do not know of the generic
anti-depressants. I was diagnosed incorrectly as being depressed until
they found out it was just a touch of panic disorder. Now, I can say
that all of the Xanax XR generics have been quite comparable. I have
had the Mylan and Apotex versions, and have been pleasantly surprised.
I feel for you, hang in there!!

gtr

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September 18, 2006 - 3:01pm #20 JeckPDX Member Joined: Oct 5 2005
Posts: 226 User offline. Last seen 1 year 4 weeks ago. replies

As the original poster of this thread, I find a few interesting
responses. Yes its true that all generics must meet similar guidelines
but there is different filler material that is used that may be what
causes different reactions. As far as hydro/apap 10/325 tablets go,
kind of like with Percocet and endocet, watson makes both the brand
name (Norco Norco 529) and a generic (watson 853) that look almost
identical except for the imprints. I have never tried tyco-mallinkrodt
10/325's but I know I was unimpressed with their 10/500s. I have tried
qualitest and they feel just as effective as the watson-Norco variety.
I also know that the majority of generics for benzodiazepines are just
as effective as the brand except for maybe xanax which is a newer one
and I've heard the brand name on that is way more potent. Just some
thoughts. Wow, this turned into a popular thread after getting few
responses for a relatively long time.

Take care all

JeckPDX

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September 18, 2006 - 3:09pm #21 blueangel Member Joined: Aug 17 2006
Posts: 127 User offline. Last seen 1 year 9 weeks ago. ALL IN YOUR
HEAD?

THANK YOU!!!!!!!GTR, WHEN PEOPLE ARE IN THE SITUATION OF CHRONIC
PAIN,I THINK IN A VERY PERSONAL WAY WE KNOW WHAT WORKS & WHAT DOESN'T
WORK AS IT SHOULD. IN A SENSE WE INSTINCTIVELY CAN MAKE THIS ACUTE
OBSERVATION OUT SIDE OF "OUR HEADS" THE CNS DOES THAT FOR US.WE ARE
GRATEFUL FOR RESPECTABLE RELIEVE, & THE WE OUR LIKE OUR OWN BAROMETERS
KNOWING WHETHER IT IS A GENERIC OR NOT -ONLY BY USING IT.AND SEEING IF
THERE IS SUFFICIENT RELEIF.I KNOW WHEN I WAS TAKING THE ABBOT VICODIN
5/500'S 2 OF THOSE WHERE FAR MORE SUPERIOR TO THIS MALLINKRODT
(INFERIOR IN MY EXPERIANCE, AS WELL AS WATSON & EVEN QUALITEST.) SO I
WOULD BE ANXIOUS TO TRY THE 10/650 ABBOT PRODUCT.PERHAPS THIS WOULD BE
A WELCOMED ANSWER.LONGEVITY WISE ,ABSORBTION RATE,& THE TIME IT REALLY
LASTS.I KNOW I WILL NEVER BE PAIN FREE-THAT IS NOT REALISTIC,BUT IT
DOES NEED TO BE MANAGED PROPERLY SO I CAN DO PHYSICAL THERAPY AND
CHORES.I AM GLAD YOU ARE GETTING RELEIF FOR YOUR OWN PERSONAL MALADY.
THANKS

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December 4, 2006 - 7:37pm #22 jalbert10NJ Member Joined: Dec 4 2006
Posts: 1 User offline. Last seen 3 years 21 weeks ago. try your own
blind test

if you think you are seeing a difference between two brands of the
same type of medication, try your own blind test to see if it's real
or placebo: have your wife/husband/girl/boyfriend blindfold you and
give you one brand of pill for 5 days, and then the other for the next
5 days (and not tell you which one of course). Then see if you can
tell which one was which. Repeat for 5 or 6 rounds to ensure you don't
just get lucky. Post the results (be fair & scientific). It will be
interesting!

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December 4, 2006 - 8:39pm #23 kirby Moderator kirby's picture Joined:
Dec 26 2004 Posts: 4332 User is online Great Idea!!

Quote:

try your own blind test to see if it's real or placebo: have
your wife/husband/girl/boyfriend blindfold you and give you one
brand of pill for 5 days, and then the other for the next 5 days
(and not tell you which one of course). Then see if you can tell
which one was which.

This is a great idea and is a very objective way to determine if one
can really tell the difference between brand and generic!Cool

Thanks jalbert10NJ.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not a pharmacist or a medical doctor. This message is not medical
advice nor is it an offer to provide medical advice. All drug
identifications should be validated by a licensed MD or pharmacist.
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December 4, 2006 - 10:37pm #24 Stormy Member Joined: Dec 4 2006 Posts:
1 User offline. Last seen 3 years 21 weeks ago. Let me be very honest
when I

Let me be very honest when I tell you that in my opinion and we all
know what those are worth that Endocet is much , much more friendly
for a better word over a period of time than the notorious
Mallinckrodt.

I have tried both and when I am short on my pain medication due to a
later doctors appointment or what have you , Endocet is much more
friendly than Mallinckrodt. I enjoyed the Mallinckrodt , however they
are the devil in disguise 'so to speak'.

Coming down from Endocet or even a reduce in dosage is not near as bad
than those white notorious oblong pills.

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March 17, 2009 - 8:18pm #25 SittingBear Member Joined: Mar 17 2009
Posts: 1 User offline. Last seen 1 year 6 weeks ago. 20% Accuracy for
Bioequivalent drugs

My pharmacy pastes a label on 100 count bottles from the manufacture.
After removing the pharmacy label the following is reveled on the
manufacture’s (Mallinckrodt) label beneath usual dosage:

10 mg Oxycodone HCI is equivalent to 8.9637 mg Oxycodone.

The following is From FDA.org

http://www.fda.gov/CDER/GUIDANCE/4252fnl.htm

Guidance for indistry

Bioanalytical medthod Validation

IV. METOD DEVELOPMENT: CHEMICAL ASSY

B. Accuracy, Precision, and Recovery

The accuracy of an analytical method describes the closeness of mean
test results obtained by the method to the true value (concentration)
of the analyte. Accuracy is determined by replicate analysis of
samples containing known amounts of the analyte. Accuracy should be
measured using a minimum of five determinations per concentration. A
minimum of three concentrations in the range of expected
concentrations is recommended. The mean value should be within 15% of
the actual value except at LLOQ, where it should not deviate by more
than 20%. The deviation of the mean from the true value serves as the
measure of accuracy..”

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March 17, 2009 - 8:26pm #26 solo5010 Member Joined: Oct 6 2005 Posts:
1790 User offline. Last seen 4 days 10 min ago. 10mg Oxycodone HCL
equaling

10mg Oxycodone HCL equaling 8.9367 Oxycodone Base has nothing to do
with the bioequivalency. Pharmaceuticals are often converted to the
HCL salt because it is easier for the body to absorb, however you
sometimes need a little more of the chemical to equal an equiv. amount
of the Basic chemical.

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April 3, 2009 - 7:35pm #27 bbptlp Member Joined: Apr 3 2009 Posts: 1
User offline. Last seen 1 year 4 weeks ago. Hello

I would like to thank everybody for giving the info I was looking for,
Iv'e been taking percocet malinkroft for about 2 years, and two days
ago I was

switched to endocet I think the percocet was better than the endocet
and what I say goes, lol just kidding no so far i'm getting a little
light headed

like you get when your going through w/d but nothing noticeable, I
call them brain waves when your brain kinda goes woosh for just a
second.

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April 8, 2009 - 4:27am #28 florida99 Member Joined: Apr 8 2009 Posts:
6 User offline. Last seen 1 year 2 days ago. solo5010

Good point there. The HCL is a complex salt and the body absorbs it
better than some of the older forms "sulfate" for example like in ms
contin does not break down as well and as a result more of the
narcotics are needed than they would be with a more complex salt like
HCL " (H)ydro(C)(L)oride This is the most educated and accurate post I
have seen from this site.

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April 8, 2009 - 4:33am #29 florida99 Member Joined: Apr 8 2009 Posts:
6 User offline. Last seen 1 year 2 days ago. 20% differentiates

If you would be speaking on the all to infamous (M) I would consider
your statement as a valid hypothesis.

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April 10, 2009 - 6:46pm #30 donjr56 Member Joined: Apr 10 2009 Posts:
1 User offline. Last seen 1 year 3 weeks ago. There is a difference

Since the VA pharmacey switched to Endocet I get the jitters,
nervousness, contstapation is far worse then before even with
medication to help the constipation. The Endocet doesn't last as long
and I just don't like how I feel. I'm one of the people with the
chronic back/leg pain for over 6 years now, and I'm thankfull for the
medications so I can hold down a job and support myself instead of
being on disability like I was for 3 years. I've been told that the
Generics use different fillers and that could have an effect on
different people.

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April 13, 2009 - 10:25am #31 MsMedusa Member Joined: Apr 13 2009
Posts: 1 User offline. Last seen 1 year 2 weeks ago. Endocet vs.
Percocet

To say that "it's all in your head" because I can feel the difference
between Endocet and Percocet is arrogant. I've been on Percocet for
pain managment and have had no side effects whatsoever and have even
decreased my dosage. It wasn't until my pharmacist gave me Endocet
that I noticed the difference. I've been extremely dizzy ever since
I've started it and I never had that side effect w/Percocet. I'm going
to have a discussion w/both him and my doctor about this. There are
too many people like me who feel that there is a difference besides
the names and we've grown weary of being patted on the head as though
we're little children who should just shut up and take their medicine
like good little boys and girls.

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April 17, 2009 - 6:03am #32 tSpot Member Joined: Apr 17 2009 Posts: 1
User offline. Last seen 1 year 2 weeks ago. Endocet

I usually take 10/325 Norco or Loracet 10/625 for my chronic pain but
had a really bad abcess and went to a dentist who NEVER give out pain
meds and he put me on the Endocet 10/325 and when I filled them, my
pharmacist told me one equals two of my norco of the same strength, is
this true? Also was given oxycodone 30 mg when I dislocated my knee
and those ones were for sure stronger than my norco but the endocet
don't seem to be two to one. Is this true or same pain relief in both
the 10 endo and norco? Thanks for the help, Alyssa

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April 17, 2009 - 10:34am #33 fred1 Member Joined: Apr 17 2009 Posts: 1
User offline. Last seen 1 year 2 weeks ago. Mallinckrodt versus Watson

Make no mistake...the Mallinckrodt product is horrible,.. i thought it
was just me. the reason i am at this site was a search for wth is
wrong with this medication. I have been taking the generic 10/325 for
some time, in careful dosage, for a chronic irrepairable rotator cuff
tear. When my pharmacy switched to the Mallenckrodt product i noticed
an imediate diff, same with endocet, neither product is nearly as
effective as a 10/325 Watson.

This is 'not in my head'!...i noticed on the Malleninckrodt container
and '' (asterik) next to the dosage..when i peeled back the
pharmacy's dosing label to read what the asterick stood for its said
'product contains 8.9637 mg oxycodone'...not the 10mg oxycodone HCL
that i am suppose to receive. It does say they are 'equivalent', but i
assure you they are not. I am going to let my doctor know and only
fill at a pharmacy that carries a Watson generic.

You can debate this issue all you want, but i know the Mallinckrodt
product to be inferior. I also found the endocet inferior to Watson @
pain control. Exact same dosage! I like many, was just going to chalk
it up to my body getting use to the medication. There is some truth to
that, but i have never increased my dose so i know there is something
very diff between the effectiveness of these diff products.

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April 17, 2009 - 12:03pm #34 tbaker397 Member Joined: Jan 7 2009
Posts: 113 User offline. Last seen 8 weeks 1 day ago. your 8.9637mg of
oxycodone is

your 8.9637mg of oxycodone is actual oxycodone in its base form, which
is equal to 10mg of the HCL salt.

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April 17, 2009 - 12:30pm #35 hydro Member Joined: Apr 22 2008 Posts:
561 User offline. Last seen 22 weeks 6 days ago. hydro to oxy

One Endocet 10/325 is not equal to two Norco 10/325 or two Lorcet
10/650. 10mg of oxycodone hclEndocet) is approximately equal to 15mg
hydrocodone bitartrate(Norco). Others can back me up on this. There is
an opiate conversion chart on this site. Try using the search box to
find it. That will explain it all.

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April 17, 2009 - 4:13pm #36 NJRx242 Member Joined: Dec 31 2008 Posts:
141 User offline. Last seen 22 weeks 1 day ago. 20% Rule is Absolutely
correct

I am a pharmacist, and the person who posted that generics are allowed
a 20% difference to the brand concentration is correct. Generic
companies have to take the brank drug concentration, say 5 milligrams
as an example, and have their product be within 95-115% for it to be
acceptable. Therefore, a drug could theoretically have an extra 15% of
the active ingredient compared to the brand. It true, I know a great
deal about the manufacturing process seeing as how I spent an
internship with Merck in NJ and I know the generic product laws.

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April 17, 2009 - 10:44pm #37 e4angel Member Joined: Apr 17 2009 Posts:
1 User offline. Last seen 1 year 1 week ago. oxycodone VS endocet

I have had very severe disabilities with chronic pain for several
years. I have mainly coped by utilizing constant physical/mental
techniques to increase tolerance levels for helping to manage pain as
much as possible, but also to offset potential drug treatment problems
that inevitably & usually contribute to drug dependency, addiction, &
subsequent resistence. Therefore, I try to engage in as much physical
activity without any meds (& challenge my limits constantly) until
exhausted, then I even try resting & relaxation methods also, until
seeking drugs for relief. At this point, I will try Acetaminophene
first, before resorting to my prescription - if at all - so that I can
finally get the maximum effect when needed. Therefore, I have become
very expert at mentally blocking pain and have developed extremely
high levels of physical tolerance. SO...when I do indulge in
medicational aid, I am acutely aware of any effects or differences if
using this kind of treatment. I have used both brand-name & generic
prescriptions for MANY years without ever noticing any significant
differences between either before, so I have not had any preconceived
nor erroneous preference with the prescriptions dispensed to me until
now. I had been receiving oxycodone for an extended time with
acceptable results but was then unknowingly switched to endocet. I
immediately noticed something was wrong & I was NOT getting the same
pain relief as before when using this to help control my pain. The
pills looked basically similar, so I phoned the pharmacy. They said
they had run out of my usual oxycodone, so the endocet was then
substituted because both medications were percoset and essentially the
same - just different names (brands). Therefore, I tried both meds
again separately to compare and see if there was some other
contributing factor or reasonable explanation for this seemingly
improbable outcome, but with the same unfavorable results, however, as
there was no doubt that the oxycodone was unquestionably more
effective than the endocet when used to successfully contribute to my
pain management program. I was skeptical of this outcome myself, yet I
have no logical answer to explain or back up this fact, I only know
this was not an "imagined" nor an isolated incident, but when tested,
the comparisons did NOT provide the same remedial qualities nor
produce the same results even though they were purported to be
identical pharmcutical products. If I am forced to resort to use them,
I do not care what the drugs are named nor who makes them, I only care
what works- I hate giving in and having to ever use ANY of them as it
is!!!

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April 17, 2009 - 11:41pm #38 cbaldivar Member Joined: Nov 30 2008
Posts: 98 User offline. Last seen 43 weeks 19 hours ago. agree

I totaly agree.. Vallwinner your wrong sorry to tell you but endocet
is a generic manufacturer for the prescription drug oxycodone/apap
(percocet) name brand.. there is no difference exept the manufacterer
and imprint as stated above.. So many people have this so mixed up
because of what they think or have heard on the "street" but do some
research we have plenty of it to back these statments up on this
site.. Get your facts right before you go posting them on these
forums.. I dont even take oxycodone I am a chronic pain patient and
take hydrocodone but still know all of the facts about most opiates..
we have had these same forums on hydrocodone too.

VICODIN

-5/500

-7.5/750 ES

-10/660 HP

LORTAB

-7.5/500

-10/500

LORCET

-7.5/650

-10/650

NORCO

-5/325

-7.5/325

-10/325

Oxycodone is similar with brand names and generics with the
combonations of apap (acetomenophen) (tylenol) but a little different
with different little names that don't really mean anything but
orgonization by different companies but all consist of the same
chemical compound oxycodone.

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June 21, 2009 - 10:17pm #39 hydro Member Joined: Apr 22 2008 Posts:
561 User offline. Last seen 22 weeks 6 days ago. NJRx242

There can be a 20% + or - on the active ingredient ??? I always
thought the active ingredient had to be right but the inactive could
be off by 20%.

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June 18, 2009 - 3:56pm #40 sweetpea723 Member Joined: Jun 18 2009
Posts: 1 User offline. Last seen 45 weeks 2 days ago. Percocet vs.
Endocet

Hello,

I am a Nursing student on my way to getting my masters. The reasoning
behind a stronger reaction to one medication after taking another is
very simple. Your body gets adjusted to taking a medication, after
that the body begins to break down the medication faster and faster.
This results in the medication becoming less effective. When a med. is
switched to a generic brand, yes the same active ingredients are the
same, but other ingredients vary or are added. This is why when
someone is switched to a generic it FEELS STRONGER/MORE POTIENT,
because now the body is unfamiliar with the other chemicals that form
the pill. This makes the body take longer to break it down and is the
reason why a new generic medication feels more effective. It should
feel similar to the first time a person had taken the regular
medication before it became prolonged usage. To answer the question,
it is not that a generic form is stronger, but the generic actually
feels like it does give a stronger effect than the medication your
body had become adjusted to.

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June 18, 2009 - 4:37pm #41 A mom Member Joined: May 28 2008 Posts: 287
User offline. Last seen 3 weeks 6 hours ago. I and others have also

I and others have also completed our nursing education (not sure why
that matters) but, if this is your theory, or what they are teaching
now (it's been many years since I was a student and they change things
year to year LOL), than can you please explain why more times than
not, the patient will have the opposite effect?

You see with your theory, the generic would always be felt as being
stronger, when changing from brand to generic, or changing from one
generic to another unless the exact inert ingredients were used in
both pills. I am sure most chronic pain paitents on this site will
agree with me on this (regardless of education or chosen profession)
but 9 times out of 10, the pill is either equo potent or less potent.
Unless you are switching from a known substandard med to a better
quality one. The formula allowed for generics is understood as well as
inert ingredients and yet what you are describing goes totally against
what the usual reaction is to a med change that is strictly a brand
change without change in dose.

So, can you please let us know how you would explain the more common ,
opposite reaction that usually happens. I am very interested in
hearing your theory.

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June 18, 2009 - 4:43pm #42 goat Moderator goat's picture Joined: Nov
21 2006 Posts: 2886 User offline. Last seen 16 min 36 sec ago. i never

got no paperwork on nothin but i know someone is a little confused
todayWink

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June 18, 2009 - 5:13pm #43 A mom Member Joined: May 28 2008 Posts: 287
User offline. Last seen 3 weeks 6 hours ago. Did I mis understand what
they were saying?

Maybe I mis understood what the poster was saying, but I re read it
about 5 times and it kept registering the same. I do have my days
where I'm a penny or two short of a nickle so it's possible. If I mis
understood and was out of line, please let me know and I will retract
my post. I would hate to be the cause of any issues, I was just
stating what the usual clinical response was, opposed to what I
understood the posters theory to be.

What the poster is describing is tolerence which we all understand,
but as I was taught, the only way to combat tolerence is for the MD to
raise the dose, or to take a "med break" and start over, not take a
generic and have it be a starting over experience. Never have I been
taught or even heard of what they are stating as being common or
truth, but usually the opposite. Again, if I am out of line, let me
know, I am very thick skinned, oh wait that's just fat not skin LOL!

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June 18, 2009 - 5:29pm #44 goat Moderator goat's picture Joined: Nov
21 2006 Posts: 2886 User offline. Last seen 16 min 36 sec ago. i agree

with your post a momLaughing

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June 19, 2009 - 10:21am #45 A mom Member Joined: May 28 2008 Posts:
287 User offline. Last seen 3 weeks 6 hours ago. I Thought so, just
making

I Thought so, just making sure I wasn't over medicated or something.
LOL

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July 11, 2009 - 7:53pm #46 jwillas Member Joined: Jul 11 2009 Posts: 2
User offline. Last seen 2 weeks 2 days ago. Endocet vs. Percocet

I feel vindicated. I've said to my wife in the past that pills from
Mallkinkrodt were inferior only to be told (in the same tone you would
use when explaining something to someone who is feebleminded for the
eighteenth time) that generics are the same as thier name brand
counterparts and that it was psychosomatic. Psychosoma-this, dear.

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August 28, 2009 - 10:48pm #47 htmom Member htmom's picture Joined: Jun
27 2008 Posts: 1013 User offline. Last seen 18 hours 57 min ago. I
know we have beat this

I know we have beat this subject to DEATH!!! But here I go. I have
been on percs 10/325 since 3/09. I have tried many differents makes.
My pharmacy has something different every few months. I have been on
the Mylan percs for a few months. I thought they worked very good.
This month they had Mallys. I get no pain relief with the Mallys at
all. I know many factors can influence the relief I get from the meds.
I called my pharmacy and they will order me Mylans. I am just stunned
by the Mallys. I have taken Mallys in the 15 mg oxycodone for years
and they are good. It has nothing to do with smell and taste because I
haven't been able to smell for a year and I can taste very little. I
know people who have never experienced this will think its all in the
head. But it is not. I will get down off the soap box now. Take care,
htmom

My post was prompted by another post about OC. I thought I would put
my two cents on the proper thread.

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August 29, 2009 - 2:02pm #48 BeavisMom62 Member BeavisMom62's picture
Joined: Aug 16 2009 Posts: 535
User offline. Last seen 6 hours 3 min ago. This is a very interesting

This is a very interesting thread. I love reading all of these
opinions. Its never made any sense to me, but it obviously true, with
generic vs brand or one generic vs another generic that there are
differences. I always thought my parents were nuts when they said that
Vicodin helps but Lortab doesn't and makes them sick. I argued and
argued that they are the same medication! there is no difference. But
then I tried Vicodin (I usually use Lortab) and had the opposite
effect. I didn't help me at all. Makes no sense but it is true.
Patients tell me that all the time, The latest that I hear often is
the difference between Topamax generic and brand. Pretty much everyone
prefers the brand. Very interesting.

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August 29, 2009 - 6:02pm #49 solo5010 Member Joined: Oct 6 2005 Posts:
1790 User offline. Last seen 4 days 10 min ago. Im kinda glad this
post was

Im kinda glad this post was brought back up it gave me a chance to
read NJRx's comment about medications being allowed to be 20%
different in active ingredient content. It surprised me for someone
who claims to be a pharamcist would actually post something so
inaccurate. The "20% thing" that people talk about and are misinformed
about is called the 90% confidence interval. This also by the way has
nothing to do with the inactive ingredients being allowed to be 20%
different. The 20% confidence interval has to do with things such as
CMax, TMax, AUC and MRT. Which are things like how long it takes for
the medication to reach a certain blood concentration, the
concentration that is reached and how long that concentration is
maintained. In order to be considered bioequivalent all these
measurements have to be within 80%-125% of the brand reference
medication to get a rating of AA,AB or Bioequivalent. If a medication
is ever rated B followed by another letter the FDA dose not consider
it bioequivalant. A -20% difference on these levels with most
medications are pretty insignificant. However I do agree that with
things like opiates there are deffinately differences felt with
different brands since the effects of these medications are primarily
felt on a mental level ie. euphoria. When you take a medication that
actually gives you a feeling when its working, if one brand is on the
lower end of the blood concentration level measurement and a different
brand is on the higher level its not unlikely that some users will
feel a significant difference if you are used to taking one brand.
--Below is a direct qoute from the FDA reexplaing what I wrote
above.--

Now as for the Endocet versus Oxy/APAP of others brands originally
posted years past, I actually like Mallinckrodts 10/325 better than
Endocet 10/325 however I do not like and will not accept Mallinckrodts
5/325.

--Bioequivalence is defined as “the absence of a significant
difference in the rate and extent to which the active ingredient or
active moiety in pharmaceutical equivalents or pharmaceutical
alternatives becomes available at the site of drug action when
administered at the same molar dose under similar conditions in an
appropriately designed study...”. To evaluate bioequivalence, the U.S.
Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has employed a testing procedure
termed the two one-sided tests procedure (i) to determine whether
the average values for the pharmacokinetic measures from the test and
reference products are comparable. This procedure involves the
calculation of a confidence interval for the ratio between the average
values of the test and reference product. FDA considers a test product
to be bioequivalent to a reference product if the 90% confidence
interval of the geometric mean ratio of AUC and Cmax between the test
and reference fall within 80-125

---------------------------------------------------------------------

References

i D.J. Schuirmann. A comparison of the two one-sided tests procedure
and the power approach for assessing the equivalence of average
bioavailability. J. Pharmacokinet. Biopharm. 15: 657-680 (1987).

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August 29, 2009 - 6:31pm #50 htmom Member htmom's picture Joined: Jun
27 2008 Posts: 1013 User offline. Last seen 18 hours 57 min ago. I
know, as solo posted, that

I know, as solo posted, that a lot of people associate effectiveness
with euphoria. Or as another poster smell and taste. But I rate
effectiveness on effectiveness. The Mylan percs killed my pain. My
pharmacy also carries Endocet but I have never gotten them, that I
know of. I have tried taking the Mally's with/without food and every
way possible. I never did that with the Mylan. Thank goodness my appt
is this week. Has anyone ever tried the Myaln percs? Take care, htmom

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